Friends of CwG Discussion Board

Hey all,

This idea just came to me recently. Something I've touched on before here on this site and elsewhere. But I feel it's been updated in an abstract way and just putting it out there for possible discussion, contemplation.

The older variation of this idea is something, I think, New Age types can relate to, even while disagreeing. And that is - in Genesis, story of Garden of Eden, the Serpent is not Satan, nor (necessarily) evil. Anyone, actually, can relate to that point. The more bold point is that the Serpent is actually (Father) God, or Holy Spirit incarnate. I feel I and others here have presented this idea and discussed it before. Because I like the idea and consider it very intriguing to interpret from that perspective, I present that again here, now:

Biblical references after this point are from NIV online.

> First important note: From Gen. 1:1 thru (1:31, and onto) Gen. 2:2, God is referred to as God. After this point in narrative, God is referred to (at least in next few chapters of Genesis) as LORD God. The translation of these various forms (titles) of God in Hebrew is interesting. I'm mostly just making reference to this as literal device. Though the updated theory I have reinterprets this from CwG perspective. More in awhile.

- Gen. 2:8-9 > 8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
> Depending how you read this, it is either inconsequential, or telling you much you 'need to know.' I bolded the last part, cause that's the part I feel can show up as inconsequential (up to this point) if read from traditional interpretation. It is my interpretation that LORD God did not make / create this tree that is "in the middle of the garden." God did. And even if one still wishes to see LORD as same being as God, then again, back to seemingly inconsequential point that God is what put this in middle of Garden.

- Gen: 2:15-17 > 15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
> Since this is the 'first commandment' of LORD God to man, the one that ends up catapulting narrative into entirely new direction, I think it important to make mention of it. It is also set up for the fall (and rise) of humanity.

- Gen: 2:19-22 > 19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
> The primary significance of this passage, in relation to my interpretation, is the - Lord God causing man to FALL ASLEEP. The key to understanding this passage, I would say accurately, is that there is no reference in Genesis to Man waking up. (Until Christ is born )

- Gen 3:1 > 1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
> Here's where I would split form what is traditional interpretation in a sharp way. My interpretation is, serpent = Holy Spirit incarnate. Not the devil. Not Satan. But Voice For God, instead. The Serpent references God, not LORD God. The Serpent was put into the Garden. Has different take on Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. One that is foremost honest, and more importantly, invoking Free Will. Not simply and only free choice, but the experience of Truth made manifest. There is not a commandment from the Serpent. But a way of understanding. Again, in a way that is foremost honest.

- Gen 3:4-5 > 4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
> A) They didn't surely die. B) Their eyes were opened, but still under spell (sleep) of Lord God. I read this passage and deception is not becoming of it. It could be said to be manipulation but most, if not all, Guidance is manipulation. Manipulation need not be dishonest. And it's even arguable it's not manipulation, I think.

- Gen 3:8-9 > 8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"
> Okay, this is to me where reader has to be a little asleep not to realize Lord God surely is not God. The idea that "God" would not know where Man is, in the World He Created, is illogical. Not illogical if Lord God makes Garden of Eden (Paradise for man to work in and care for). Understandable that Lord God might not 'see' them if their eyes are opened, and are now God-like.

- Gen 3:13-14 > 13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
> A) the serpent did not deceive Eve. B) the serpent isn't allowed to speak for Himself after providing Cause of Free Will within the Garden and C) Lord God at this point turns into something that is not God up until this point of the narrative, namely one who punishes those who disagree with him and his 'logic.'

And that is what I feel has already been discussed previously (here and elsewhere). The updated idea I had occur to me, premiering here on FoCwG is that LORD God (LG) equals, what "Tomorrow's God" is referring to as Yesterday's God.

That's a rather simple point and so here's my additional points.
- Yesterday's God (YG) is a 'spell' that has, how you say, captured humankind. A delusion, experience of not being fully awake.
- LG and YG are not evil incarnate, satan, devil, etc. It is at best a dream, and at worst, confusing. Simply put, ego.
- Tomorrow's God (TG), Creator God (CG), God within is that which we are destined to wake up to, and through. Wake up with (spiritual) eyes open, Knowledge of Good and Evil, no separation felt in Heart.
- TG and CG created the World as it Is, and not what parcel (Paradise) they would make of it, for separated being(s) to care for and work in, as YG and LG, have perpetuated. This nether world where banishment is deemed plausible, and punishment deemed sensible. A world based on what was done, rather than World based in what is Being.
- Tomorrow's God is found within, and then all around. LG is over there, yonder, wondering why man still insists on hiding from him.
- TG is still saying, thou shalt surely not die. Never has stopped saying this. And eat of the Tree I eat of. I have placed it in the middle (within) where you shall never not know Knowledge.
- LG wants you nowhere.... near that Tree. Believe that you are separate from it, and LG becomes G unto you. Or so YG hopes you will allow to perpetuate for ... just a little while longer. For in your desire to become God like, LG tells, you MUST surely die.

- Unless you wake up?
> God, if I know

I am generally not interested in the God of Yesterday or Tomorrow, the only concern I have is with the God of the Eternal Moment of Now.

That said though, I find the Garden of Eden story very fascinating! If it was true, does it mean that we all collectively have the knowledge of Good and Evil? Believe it or not, I think that would make a fair claim to make, because there are some things that I have done, when I knew they were wrong...these days, my gut my feeling, my heart tells me, that deliberately causing harm to another life form (without a very, very good reason) is an evil act. I will not even use big spray anymore, and will gently guide all creatures, whether a house fly, ant, or even a spider outside these days, if I consider them a disturbance. This has been hard, but I've been doing all I can to coexist peacefully with all creatures, great and small. Does anyone else feel this way towards Life?

My only shortfall, is that I still consume the meat of other animals, and give the meat of other animals to my puppy, but there is some justification I think, in that to the best of my knowledge, it is possible that are bodies need this meat (my puppy's fast asleep right now, she's so cute).

Anyway, back to this book of genesis stuff, the whole thing of surely dying, Tomorrow's God DOES talk of death, but that death and birth are the same thing. Death scares me...but I know it's a natural part of life...

Sometimes I see the Eden story as metaphorical in the process of evolution and creation.

Observe the animal: he/she does not fight against nature, which is God. He/she cooperates and accepts what is his/her lot. If more is given to him/her, he/she is eternally grateful for this burst of compassion from another, and delivers accordingly. Think of your dog!

But the human turned away from this, considered him/herself too good, too smart to continue working, cooperating. So he/she began to uncomfortably expand, and he/she has been lost concerning the relationship with God ever since.

Our brilliance frees us from conformity but also, in a way, leads us astray.

is it just me, or are there some unresolved issues in society?

I haven't spoken to Josh in a while, he's got lots going on I think. anyway, to elaborate on what I said, I think the problems in society come from our ideas about yesterday's god, and that's the ideas that involve us having to "earn" our way into Heaven, when that's not the reality at all, God gave us fruit for free, there was no price tag on the first banana. Not that our current system of trade is bad or anything, i quite like money.

I just came back from Melbourne where I read Genesis, the Holy Bible, the first chapter was awesome, I think it was the third chapter that stunk. That's because God implies that Satan is a snake, so it makes people not like snakes, as if snakes are the descendants of Satan.

Of course Fallen One, you would know all about this matter, being a demon and all. Tell me, do you see Satan as one big giant snake or what?

I have a huge snake tattoo on my arm - does this mean I am evil?

I would consider I am capable of both deep awesome love and also deep darkness - I can choose which I want to be at any given moment in time. I prefer to be love. But I have been darkness as well.

I don't think I was created by God directly, but that I evolved from apes

Yes, I am not disagreeing with that, I am talking about DIRECT acts of God, me putting a gun to your head and pulling your trigger is not a Godly act, indirectly God is responsible for making me do it in the first place, but just because God or whoever has given you the power to do something Ungodly doesn't make it Godly, do you get it?